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Forums» International Building and Residential Codes -- Non-Structural Issues» Is a fire damper or a smoke damper is required?

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Is a fire damper or a smoke damper is required?
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Re: Is a fire damper or a smoke damper is required? By  peach!!

Posts: 0

11/19/2007 1:02:00 PM

certainly for (B); if the walls between the rooms are rated, then yes for (A).


   

Re: Is a fire damper or a smoke damper is required? By  Emperor of Codes

Posts: 0

11/19/2007 2:33:00 PM

Maybe not on both...

Start with 708 Fire Partition
708.1 (2) use R-2 requires (1) hour separation
708.3 exception (2) allows reduction to 1/2 hour in Type IIB / IIIB / VB construction with sprinkler system NFPA 13 or 13R(required in R-2 use) and 708.9 Ducts to be installed per 716

716.5.4 Fire Partitions exception (1) removes the requirement for fire dampers in tenant separation or corridor walls when a sprinkler system is installed (required for R-2 use)

716.5.4.1 Corridors
Smoke dampers may not be required if an approved smoke control system is provided. Also the use of steel ducts (.019 inch) exempts the dampers.

There are design methods that could remove the need for dampers...smoke control systems would be an example


   

Re: Is a fire damper or a smoke damper is required? By  peach!!

Posts: 0

11/19/2007 2:50:00 PM

I don''t buy that you can necessarily allow transfer grilles between "dwelling units" in a dorm.. which is technically (by IBC anyway) an R-2... would we allow it between apartment tenants (I think not)


   

Re: Is a fire damper or a smoke damper is required? By  Builder bob

Posts: 0

11/19/2007 3:37:00 PM

I don''t think the transfer grills meet the exception for fire partition penetrations - especially 3.5

3. The duct system is constructed of approved materials in accordance with the International Mechanical Code and the duct penetrating the wall
complies with all of the following requirements:
3.1. The duct shall not exceed 100 square
inches (0.06 m2).
3.2. The duct shall be constructed of steel a
minimum of 0.0217 inch (0.55 mm) in
thickness.
3.3. The duct shall not have openings that communicate the corridor with adjacent spaces
or rooms.
3.4. The duct shall be installed above a ceiling.
3.5. The duct shall not terminate at a wall register in the fire-resistance-rated wall.


   

Re: Is a fire damper or a smoke damper is required? By  peach!!

Posts: 0

11/19/2007 3:39:00 PM

lucky you had a code book handy, UB


   

Re: Is a fire damper or a smoke damper is required? By  Dr. J

Posts: 0

11/20/2007 9:30:00 AM

Actually, this arrangement is not permitted. You can''t just dump outside air into the corridor and let it transfer to the dorm rooms.

IBC 1017.4: "Air movement in corridors. Corridors shall not serve as supply, return, exhaust, relief or ventilation air ducts."

You might be tempted to say it meets Exception 1 "Use of a corridor as a source of makeup air for exhaust systems in rooms that open directly onto such corridors, including toilet rooms, bathrooms, dressing rooms, smoking lounges and janitor closets, shall be permitted, provided that each such corridor is directly supplied with outdoor air at a rate greater than the rate of makeup air taken from the corridor." but I do not think the intent of the code is to equate make up for exhaust from a toilet room opening directly onto the corridor with outside air for a sleeping room. We usually duct the outside air down the corridor to the back of fan-coils in each room. This has the added benefit of avoiding smoke and fire dampers (except at the shaft wall of course).

Also, before you are tempted to use the above ceiling space by citing IBC 1017.4.1, note that this is for return air, not supply, ventilation, or outside air.

Of course, you might be able to talk an AHJ into accepting this concept (not that I have had that luck). If you do, then as BB pointed out, it is clear that fire dampers are required, and smoke dampers are required to meet 716.5.4.1. It does not take an awful lot of smoke/fire dampers to pay for an outside air duct down the corridor.

Besides, do you really want a direct opening from a dorm room to the corridor, this would transfer sound from the dorm rooms to the corridor, as well as odors from the student''s self prescribed herbal remedies.


   

Re: Is a fire damper or a smoke damper is required? By  Emperor of Codes

Posts: 0

11/20/2007 3:58:00 PM

engrema... questions
1. do the dorm rooms have operable windows?
2. will the grilles be above a ceiling?
3. what is the heating and cooling source?


For the record I''m in favor of dampers. This is an exercise to understand more.

FYI..in large buildings I''m seeing less dampers and more smoke control systems.


   

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