ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2

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ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2

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Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By mtlogcabin

Posts: 0

7/31/2009 8:32:00 PM

	No other fixtures or obstructions shall be within the required water closet clearance. This is to allow for a side transfer. A wheel chair could not get back far enough if another fixture was in this space.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By swansont

Posts: 0

8/1/2009 6:59:00 AM

	cabin has it, prior to that last limiting sentence in the section, elements that ARE allowed to overlap into the required 60" are described, and the lav is not included.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By peach!!

Posts: 0

8/1/2009 7:35:00 AM

	I agree with fat and cabin... the side transfer from a wheel chair is the deciding factor..

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By rj2085

Posts: 0

8/1/2009 7:39:00 AM

	Agree with fatboy and cabin! The most commom mistake made in Bathroom layout. Some put the sink in an alcove to reduce the size, but the 60" still holds.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By jar546

Posts: 0

8/1/2009 9:19:00 AM

	So with a typical 20" wide sink we are looking at a minimum of a 80" width for that type of setup. What is the smallest possible accessible bathroom with a water closet and lav? The regular ADA manual allows what I am talking about but the ANSI 117 does not.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By Paul Sweet

Posts: 0

8/1/2009 11:07:00 AM

	Actually it''s 85" if the lavatory is on the same wall as the WC. The IPC requires 15" from the CL of the lavatory to the wall. Lavatories used to be allowed to be 18" from the CL of the water closet, but not any more. I think it was changed in 2003. The current ADAAG also prohibits lavatories from being in the clear space, except in a residence.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By peach!!

Posts: 0

8/1/2009 11:20:00 AM

	Let''s rethink this.. 18" from partition/wall to CL of toilet.. Minimum stall is 60".. so we have 42" left.. Minimum clear space for doors is 32".. so leave 32" for transfer space.. 10" left.. 15" from CL of lav to wall.. yup.. looks like 85" if all fixtures are on one wall.. Don''t make the room bigger... reorganize it.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By AlabamaTide

Posts: 0

8/3/2009 1:17:00 PM

	[QUOTE]What is the smallest possible accessible bathroom with a water closet and lav?[/QUOTE]One way to use space more efficiently is to use a swing-up grab bar for the WC. An example of this is shown in ANSI-117 fig 604.5.3. With this method you should be able to get both the WC (27" deep) and lav (20" deep) on the same plumbing wall with an ADA and ANSI-117 code compliant 60" turnaround within a room size of about 5''9" x 6''8".

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By mtlogcabin

Posts: 0

8/3/2009 2:08:00 PM

	Disagree. 604.5 Grab Bars. Grab bars for water closets shall comply with Section 609 and shall be provided in accordance with Sections 604.5.1 and 604.5.2. Grab bars shall be provided on the rear wall and on the side wall closest to the water closet. Swing up bars are 604.5.3 Swing up bars are permitted in Type B units only 604.5 exceptions 4 & 5.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By AlabamaTide

Posts: 0

8/3/2009 3:27:00 PM

	Agreed. The OP used the word "bathrooms" that lead me to dwelling and sleeping units in chapter 10. I do agree that only type "B" units meet the swing-up bar exceptions as you note. But still a good way to reduce space if conditions permit.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By architect1281

Posts: 0

8/3/2009 6:33:00 PM

	What don''t they understand about "NO OTHER FIXTURES ALLOWED IN THIS AREA'' clearance can overlap clearances but a fixture CANNOT OVERLAP another fixtures clearance. the college I went to (in the early 70''s) required all architecture students to stay in a wheel chair for a week. GIVES YOU A WHOLE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE GET A LIFE AND THE OP WORD IS 604 Water Closets and Toilet Compartments 604 IS APPLICABLE TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN RESIDENTIAL A OR B UNITS CH 10 ADRESSES DWELLING UNITS

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By jar546

Posts: 0

8/3/2009 8:27:00 PM

	Now that I read it again with the explanation of others, I see how I was trying to split hairs to make something sound like what I wanted it to. I allowed someone elses slant to skew the way I make an interpretation. I should know better. I am trying very hard to be open minded and look from the other side to see if I am missing or misunderstaning something that I am starting to question myself. I better go back to being stubborn and closed minded. Let them prove me wrong rather than trying to understand what they are saying.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By genebko

Posts: 0

8/4/2009 6:39:00 AM

	Jeff, Actually, the ADA manual has it wrong. The illustration in the ADAAG that shows the lav within the 60 space was a mistake. The intent was that it was to be used only for residential occupancies where the lavatory can encroach on the water closet clear floor space. It''s being fixed in the next edition (if we ever get it adopted by the DoJ . . . )

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By buckshot

Posts: 0

8/4/2009 6:53:00 AM

	The 2006 IBC Commentary Figure 1109.2 (1) has some pretty good diagrams to illustrate the side transfer requirements. The 60 inch clearance at the W.C. allows a side transfer from a wheelchair, but this clearance also benefits persons with a disability that may use crutches, braces, walkers, need an assistant, or are simply oversized.

Re: ANSI 117.1 2003 604.3.2 By MarkBot85

Posts: 0

8/4/2009 9:03:00 AM

	Part of the confusion with the lavatories is that ADA (& I believe the ''98 ANSI-don''t have one handy to check) has shown them in the clear space in previous versions. I don''t know if it was a mistake as genebko says or just a change in thinking on accessibility. I''ve assumed it was a change a thinking. Up until the 2003 ANSI was adopted locally, I designed many toilet rooms with the lav in the clear space of the toilet. It was the accepted design at the time and was never questioned. The ANSI A117.1-2003 version is very clear this is no longer accepted. I guess whether it was a mistake or a change, it doesn''t really matter as it is now very clearly stated.