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walk in closet vent
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Re: walk in closet vent By  Michael R. Moore

Posts: 0

8/6/2005 4:39:00 PM

No, as heating (not A/C) is required only in HABITABLE rooms. By definition, a closet is NOT a habitable room. See UBC 310.11 and 209 (Definitions)


Re: walk in closet vent By  Dr. J

Posts: 0

8/8/2005 10:11:00 AM

Could the on-line experts please chime in on an expanded version of this question?
What defines an occupied space for which outdoor air ventilation is required by the I-codes.

There are several oddball types of rooms in buildings (especially commercial) which are not normally occupied, such as electrical rooms, teledata rooms, mechanical rooms, elevator equipment rooms, storage (in other than retail or dry cleaning), and others that come up in specific projects, which do not show up in IMC Table 404.3

There is no definition for "Occupied Space" in IMC, yet every occupied space is required to be ventilated (IMC 401.1).

The definition of an "Occupiable Space" in IBC is a space that has ventilation. Thus if someone says a room needs ventilation because it is an occupied space, I could say it is not an occupied space because it does not have ventilation.

Obviously, as a PE, I will design ventilation where needed for health and safety of the building occupants, but there are occasionally rooms that truly do not have any contaminant load and people do not normally work or "live" there. These may have heating and/or cooling, but outdoor air ventilation or exhaust and transfer air may be a major effort. An example is an exit enclosure. Most are just "back of house" areas that may need some fin-tube or unit heater for freeze protetion, but if ventilation is required, an independant system, separate from the building''s HVAC system is required.


Re: walk in closet vent By  peach!!

Posts: 0

8/8/2005 3:36:00 PM

technically, I guess, you wouldn''t need to condition a bathroom, since it''s not a habitable room... wouldn''t that be nice?

[This message has been edited by peach!! (edited 08-08-2005).]


Re: walk in closet vent By  Dr. J

Posts: 0

8/9/2005 7:05:00 AM

By IBC Definititions, a bathroom is not a "habitable space", but in IMC table 403.3, it is required to be ventilated.


Re: walk in closet vent By  peach!!

Posts: 0

8/9/2005 11:30:00 AM

does ventilation automatically mean heating or just mechanical ventilation to eliminate moisture laden air?


Re: walk in closet vent By  A Picker

Posts: 0

8/9/2005 12:21:00 PM

Peach, In my area of the country,(the South} bringing in Outside air also means bringing in moisture. The IMC says ventilation is natural or mechanical process of supplying or removing conditioned or unconditioned air to any space. Can or cannot be heated or cooled. Ventilation air is defined as outside air.{short version}
The IBC says: OCCUPIABLE SPACE. A room or enclosed space designed for human occupancy in which individuals congregate for amusement, educational or similar purposes or in which occupants are engaged at labor, and which is equipped with means of egress and light and ventilation facilities meeting the requirements of this code.
The IRC says:[B] OCCUPIED SPACE. The total area of all buildings or structures on any lot or parcel of ground projected on a horizontal plane, excluding permitted projections as allowed by this code.
Confused Yet?
Then there is Habitable space.
The entire subject needs to be re-examined.
The IRC version is,to me, what needs to be in the IBC and it has a [B] beside it so it SHOULD be.
I don''t have any problem with the IMC allowing for systems not to have outside air when no one is in the building, but the way it is written you could assume that if the primary use is not for human occupancy then you don''t need ventilation. Then if it is not a habitable space the IBC/IRC doesn''t require ventilation. The IMC 403 steps in with exhaust requirements for bathrooms and other spaces. There seams to be no nails holding the codes together on the subject.


Re: walk in closet vent By  jbh

Posts: 0

8/9/2005 12:54:00 PM

A bathroom does not require heating, that''s your choice. Ventilation is required to remove odors and moisture laden air. It''s funny how the simplest ideas cause such debate. And a bathroom is not the walk-in closet that this post started out. The closet doesn''t need anything, not even a door.


Re: walk in closet vent By  peach!!

Posts: 0

8/9/2005 8:27:00 PM

I guess my point was.. maybe some type of correlation needs to be made between the IRC and the other I codes.... JB.. I don''t think under IRC you need a door for the bathroom anymore, either.. lived in the south.. now north.. I don''t think I''d want to take a shower in an unheated bathroom when it''s below zero.. but we don''t seem to address that (well, the operable window, which we won''t open might help some with the moisture.. but DAMN.. it''ll be a quick shower).. (well, if I open the window, and have the proper prevailing winds... I guess warm air from my habitable living room might find it''s way under the door to keep me from freezing to death.. some people might like a peach-cicle... but wait, I didn''t open the window, so there''s no air movement)

I think the code needs to require a ventilation fan (and heat) in bathing rooms (maybe not a toilet compartment.. just my 2 cents


Re: walk in closet vent By  jim baird

Posts: 0

8/10/2005 5:56:00 AM

I suppose the IRC has yet to catch up with the expanding floor plans of homes today, where walk-in closets are seen more and more.

I see air supplies installed in them all the time, and it is a good idea. Heck, I''ve seen walk-ins double as impromptu sleeping rooms.

As for codes, the IRC is supposed to be a code-for-dummies who just want to focus on residential applications and not bother with all that other stuff. It is simpler by design.


Re: walk in closet vent By  willey1

Posts: 0

8/10/2005 6:33:00 AM

what about the closet? we went to the toilet on this one, I just think there should be a code somewhere that requires this room to have some heat/cool abilitiy not only because it is a large room within the residence but also with an exterior wall on one or two sides, hey I am here for the homeowner and need some "leverage to get that vent installed.....hmmmm


Re: walk in closet vent By  Builder bob

Posts: 0

8/10/2005 7:47:00 AM

What Apicker stated.....

Can we build to minimum standards?


Re: walk in closet vent By  new guy

Posts: 0

8/10/2005 8:07:00 AM

willey 1 - although I too believe the code should require conditioned air in bathrooms and other large room areas, make no mistake. The homeowner already has all the "leverage" he / she needs to have conditioned air provided wherever he / she wants.

It''s called "free will" in choosing a contractor and a checkbook.


Re: walk in closet vent By  jbh

Posts: 0

8/10/2005 12:59:00 PM

Well said newbie. Like I tell people, you can''t do worse than the code. You can always do better if you want to.


Re: walk in closet vent By  paulse

Posts: 0

8/10/2005 1:06:00 PM

The difference between residential SFD''s and commercial is that the venting in SFD''s can be provided by windows that open. SFD venting is not about conditioned air, it is about oxygen. There are problems developing with air tight houses where the air becomes stale, for lack of a better word.

This is the problem in commercial applications where access to openable windows is limited, and the continual entry and exit of occupants does not refresh the air. Vestibules generally do not suffer from this as the continued use usually refreshes the air (but i do not know how you would handle your heat applications).

My understanding of the exit seperation for venting systems allows that the vestibule can be part of the whole exit system, but that one system cannot serve both exits. That was the UBC and 2000 IBC. That was my introduction to both inspecting and plan checking the same job as an "as-built". in fact my first job, so I may be in error.

Closets get conditioned air by usage. It would have to be a special closet the requires environmental air.

It is also my understanding that in SFD''s all rooms, not closets, with exterior walls shall have both lighting and venting according to code however they are named on the plans, with the exception of the kitchen.



Re: walk in closet vent By  jbh

Posts: 0

8/10/2005 1:07:00 PM

Peach, spending 23 days with temperatures above 100 makes me wonder why air-conditioning isn''t required. *S* I grew up with an unvented gas heater in the bathroom. It was great, toasty on the cold winter mornings.

[This message has been edited by jbh (edited 08-10-2005).]


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