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Author
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Topic: Who enforces ICC codes in non-city limit areas ?
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venkynarayanan Posts: 3 Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 08-05-2003 12:14 PM
Hi,I am buying a new house in Richmond, Texas. I feel the builder has violated an ICC code (IRC - R308.4 - Glazing glass). None of the glasses satisfying item 7 have been glazed. My question is, who is in-charge of enforcing this rule in my area ? The catch is: my house is outside the Richmond city limit. I called the city office and they said they are not responsible, since it is outside their jurisdiction. I called the county office, and they said they don't know since it doesn't come under any city limit. I called the TDLR (Texas dept of licensing & regulation) and they said they are not sure about who should enforce it. But everyone agrees that the state of Texas adopts the IRC (Internation Residential Code) since Jan 1st, 2002. (http://www.iccsafe.org/ICARL/4.0_state_local/texas.pdf) Does this mean that, if the area doesn't come under a city limit, the builders need not comply with the codes ? Any idea to whom I can take issue ? Any pointers will be greately appreciated... Regards, Venky. IP: Logged |
BlueRidge Posts: 162 Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 08-05-2003 12:40 PM
In our area, if you are building outside the towns limits then the county takes over. It pretty much goes like this: city/town in the county county in the state state in the USIf you have contacted both city and county officals and neither one of them has a clue, you may want to start sweating about who actually comes out to inspect and their abilities if they come from either group. Thanks IP: Logged |
donbmt Posts: 202 Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 08-05-2003 01:17 PM
Venky, that is a good question that nobody seems to know the answer to. I'm the Building Official for the City of Beaumont and haven't been able to find that answer. Our great state just adopted a statewide electrical license that requires electricians to be licensed outside of cities, with no enforcement arm. We are finally getting statewide codes in Texas, now we just need to figure out how to enforce them. Try going to the State of Texas website and find House Bill (HB) 730, it addresses warranties for houses, you may be able to use that. BTW Blueridge, nobody inspects outside of cities in Texas( with a few exceptions), pretty scary huh? It's amazing people can even get insurance[This message has been edited by donbmt (edited 08-05-2003).] IP: Logged |
BlueRidge Posts: 162 Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 08-05-2003 02:34 PM
quote: Originally posted by donbmt:
BTW Blueridge, nobody inspects outside of cities in Texas( with a few exceptions), pretty scary huh? It's amazing people can even get insuranceThat is really hard to swallow that no one inspects outside the city limits, w/few exceptions of course. I do not know much about the great state of Texas, but I imagine that inspections are required for all areas in the state. If there are not enough inspectors available to cover the vast ranges there, then someone needs to allocate some expenses in their next budget to hire some inspectors. For some reason, I see the pictures of tornado's ripping through small communities leaving houses spread across the landscape. Inspections may have kept some in partial tact for future rebuilds, but then again, maybe not. Thanks [This message has been edited by donbmt (edited 08-05-2003).]
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venkynarayanan Posts: 3 Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 08-05-2003 03:14 PM
Don, BlueRidge,Thanks for your posts and the inputs. I went through the actual bill (<a href="http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlo/77R/billtext/SB00365F.HTM">Texas SB-365</a> ), which states, ... "b) The International Residential Code applies to all construction, alteration, remodeling, enlargement, and repair of residential structures in a municipality. (c) A municipality may establish procedures: (1) to adopt local amendments to the International Residential Code; and (2) for the administration and enforcement of the International Residential Code. ..." so, WHICH IS THE MUNICIPALITY ? What is the definition of municipality ? Is it the city office ? or the County office ? or the MUD office ?
Because, as per the bill Municipality is in-charge of the enforcement ? Thanks, Venky. IP: Logged |
darren Posts: 316 Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 08-05-2003 03:18 PM
Venky, Are you certain the glazing in question meets ALL of the following: 7.1 Enclosed area of an individual pane greater than 9 square feet (often there are smaller panes on the bottom, then one large pane above) 7.2 Bottom edge less than 18 inches above the floor (the bottom of the greater than 9 square foot pane that extends to more than 36 inches above the floor) 7.3 Top edge greater than 36 inches above the floor (top edge of the greater than 9 square foot pane that also is within 18 inches of the floor) 7.4 One or more walking surfaces within 36 inches horizontally of the glazing.IF the glazing meets all four it must be tempered, and in that case just call the glass supplier - they should right THEIR wrong of supplying non-compliant glass even if no one inspects it. IP: Logged |
cda Posts: 1108 Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 08-06-2003 06:18 AM
in the past if you built in a texas county there were no buiding codes that you had to meet, I thought the last go around the state adopted a building code for the county areas, you might check the state insurance commission or do a search of the legsilator site for building code. also look in any of your contracts to see if it was stated that they have to meet a certain building code and if so it may take hiring your own inpsector to see if they met that code.IP: Logged |
Gary M Posts: 192 Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-06-2003 06:37 AM
In the state of Georgia the ICC codes are mandated provisions for all construction activity in the state. The local city or county entity through the governing principle of "home rule" may or may not choose to adopt local enforcement powers to permit and inspect construction work, however the codes are in force regardless of the local jurisdiction's ability or desire to enforce them. If there is no local government enforcement of the code then the issue of non-compliance disputes between owners and contractors becomes a civil matter that ultimately would be decided in court. The fact that the contractor was responsible to satisfy the code requirements by state law, is admissible evidence, in the proceeding. I do not know if Texas follows the home rule model but I would think that if the legal language only empowers municipal and not county governments to mandate the provisions of the code with or without local enforcement, then there may argueably be an equal protection issue for those citizens not fairly represented by the law.Gary Mullinix [This message has been edited by Gary M (edited 08-07-2003).] IP: Logged |
donbmt Posts: 202 Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 08-06-2003 06:39 AM
I think Gary has the best advice and HB730 that was signed into law recently is probably a good starting point. Municipality is a city, very few counties in Texas enforce building codes, that's just the sad reality of it, and it's not going to change anytime soon.[This message has been edited by donbmt (edited 08-06-2003).] IP: Logged |
venkynarayanan Posts: 3 Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 08-06-2003 08:17 AM
Thanks a lot for all your pointers, clarifications and help.dan: I'll dig through HB730 to find if that can help me. gary: I'll check if home rule is followed in texas too. darren: yes, it does meet all the four requirements of item 7. cda: I had never even heard of the terms ICC, IRC, IBC etc... I hired a professional inspector to inspect my house last week. He is the one who pointed this (glazing issue) out. But upon doing further inquiry, I came to understand my house is outside the city limit and there is a question of who the enforcer will be. Thanks, Venky.
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bobv Posts: 116 Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 08-06-2003 08:46 AM
venky, in our area, the city enforces 1 mile outside "city limits" this is referred to as "extra teritorial jurisdiction" a.k.a. ETJ this is quite common with all city planning. you may want to ask about this . hope it helps.------------------ bobv IP: Logged |
InspMO Posts: 184 Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 08-06-2003 07:25 PM
Missouri has NO State mandated building codes. The majority of counties in Missouri have no building codes. They leave it up to local jurisdiction to adopt what they want. In unincorpated Jackson County(KC Metro area)the county dishes out their inspections to the Fire Districts that have a hard time seeing past the the Fire Code. The State needs to tighten up and adopt state wide construction code and a requirement for inspectors to become certified. I find it funny that a barber, beautician, appriaser, real estates agents, etc have to be state licensed, but not inspector or BOs.I guess if you have no inspection requirement where you live, go to the nearest place that does and see if a Inspector will look things over for you just for your own peice of mind or quality control. 
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cda Posts: 1108 Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 08-07-2003 05:46 AM
talk to the inspector you hired or if you have an architect for the project have them look at your contract to see if it states that they have to build to a certain building code or standard.IP: Logged |