Forum ProfileBack
Advanced

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Outlet for HVAC
May 22, 2005
5:58 am
Avatar
dave w
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 657
Member Since:
April 24, 2000
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

installation requires the electrical code, requirements for electricity is demanded by the appliance mfg or related code. [IMG]http://www.iccsafe.org/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

------------------
DaveW - Colorado - Have a Great Day -
ICBO/ICC,
UBC97 Res/Com, NEC99 Res/Com, UMC97 Res/Com, UPC2000 Res/Com, IPC2000 Res/Com, IFGC2000 Res/Com, IMC2000 Res/Com,

May 21, 2005
3:59 pm
Avatar
stacey dryer
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 38
Member Since:
April 25, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

i belive that no matter what type of equipment it is, the word equipment handles it all ,if it has electric ran to it, it is regulated by the electric code

March 31, 2005
5:14 am
Avatar
ryan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1011
Member Since:
January 26, 2003
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EPrice:
[b]I can''t find a definition for air-conditioning equipment in the NEC. [/b][/QUOTE]

What about 440.1? Also, what about the fact that they are listed as ventilation equipment?

March 30, 2005
2:15 pm
Avatar
eprice
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 630
Member Since:
April 17, 2000
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I can''t find a definition for air-conditioning equipment in the NEC. The definition of "air-condition" in my dictionary is "to control the temperature etc. of indoor air". I think an evaporative cooler does that.

March 30, 2005
12:26 pm
Avatar
ryan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1011
Member Since:
January 26, 2003
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks for the post, that is interesting. The problem with a non-electrical code having electrical requirements is the language barrier. For example, in the quoted text I see a major problem...there is no such thing as a 120 volt receptacle, only 125, 208 and 250V. In the IMC there is another requirement that asks for "an electrical cable" to be installed. By this language, you couldn''t use a flexible raceway, since it is not a "cable".

I didn''t realize the UMC asked for this though...thanks again.

March 30, 2005
8:06 am
Avatar
karlie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 110
Member Since:
June 9, 2004
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ryan:
[b] We don''t use the UMC here, so I don''t have it. Even still, if it defines it as equipment, I don''t see how that makes it "heating, air-conditioning or refrigeration".[/b][/QUOTE]
The UMC 309 states "Equipment regulated by this code requiring electrical connections of more than 50 volts shall have a positive means of disconnect. A 120 volt receptacle shall be located within 25'' of the equipment for service and maintence purposes. The receptacle need not be located on the same level as the equipment." It does not say it has to be HACR, it says equipment regulated by this code and coolers are regulated by the UMC. I do not have a copy of the IMC.

March 30, 2005
3:25 am
Avatar
dave w
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 657
Member Since:
April 24, 2000
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Within 25'' on the same level, as equipment for maintenance. Is addessed in the 97 UMC 306.3 as being required. [IMG]http://www.iccsafe.org/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jboren:
[b]I see the need for a requirement on commercial buildings. The old rule (1990?1993?) was 75'' for a rooftop unit, then 25'' for a rooftop unit. not ''til recently (''05?)was ground mounted equipment addressed. I guess it wasn''t fair to tell HVAC techs to retro their trucks to provide 120v or to carry a generator, but 25'' is a very convenient outlet.[/b][/QUOTE]

------------------
DaveW - Colorado - Have a Great Day -
ICBO/ICC, UBC97/NEC99/UMC97/UPC/IPC2000/IFGC2000/IMC2000

[This message has been edited by DaveW (edited 03-31-2005).]

March 29, 2005
1:20 pm
Avatar
ryan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1011
Member Since:
January 26, 2003
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by karlie:
[b]Check section 309 of the 2000 UMC and definition of evaporative cooling system. It is equipment so it would require an outlet.[/b][/QUOTE]

We don''t use the UMC here, so I don''t have it. Even still, if it defines it as equipment, I don''t see how that makes it "heating, air-conditioning or refrigeration".

March 29, 2005
7:41 am
Avatar
karlie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 110
Member Since:
June 9, 2004
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Check section 309 of the 2000 UMC and definition of evaporative cooling system. It is equipment so it would require an outlet.

March 29, 2005
5:13 am
Avatar
ryan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1011
Member Since:
January 26, 2003
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
sp_Print Print Post Post #10

The requirement does not apply to HVAC, it applies to HACR. Evaporative coolers, for example, are listed as ventilation equipment and therefore no receptacle is needed for them.

March 29, 2005
4:43 am
Avatar
brent
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 274
Member Since:
February 17, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
sp_Print Print Post Post #11

Absolutly- 25'' is great and convenient! A 1/2 horse vacuum pump that may need to run an hour or 2 doesn''t like long extension cords.

March 29, 2005
4:26 am
Avatar
jboren
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1166
Member Since:
January 27, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
sp_Print Print Post Post #12

I see the need for a requirement on commercial buildings. The old rule (1990?1993?) was 75'' for a rooftop unit, then 25'' for a rooftop unit. not ''til recently (''05?)was ground mounted equipment addressed. I guess it wasn''t fair to tell HVAC techs to retro their trucks to provide 120v or to carry a generator, but 25'' is a very convenient outlet.

March 29, 2005
4:17 am
Avatar
brent
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 274
Member Since:
February 17, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
sp_Print Print Post Post #13

Sorry- maybe I should have been more specific. Roof top locations are the biggest problem, especially 12 plex apartment buildings and small to medium sized office warehouse spaces. Some of which don''t have an outlet within 200''. Some don''t have outlets that can be found on the outside of the building.

March 28, 2005
8:09 pm
Avatar
jboren
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1166
Member Since:
January 27, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
sp_Print Print Post Post #14

do HVAC techs not carry extension cords? Electrical outlets are already required in the front yard and the back yard. Are 100'' cords too heavy for an HVAC tech? Or are all the longer cords reserved for installers? and no, I won''t build you a furr down!

March 28, 2005
4:28 pm
Avatar
brent
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 274
Member Since:
February 17, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
sp_Print Print Post Post #15

This is a necessary requirement. HVAC service technicians need an outlet at outdoor locations more than inside.

Anytime the refrigeration system is opened up they will use a recovery machine and a vacuum pump. Virtually all residential units and most commercial unit have refrigerant access ports outside, not inside. This is one of those items that should be on an inspection check list- PLEASE!

March 28, 2005
1:07 pm
Avatar
wwebb
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 351
Member Since:
September 14, 2004
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
sp_Print Print Post Post #16

This came up in our jurisdiction. The IRC does NOT specifically require an outlet within 20'' or 25'' of the unit unless it is in an attic or crawlspace. BUT---if you read the last 2 sentences of E3301.2 (Scope) you will see that not all conditions are covered in the IRC that are covered in the NEC. See 2002 NEC, Art. 210.63. This is where the requirement can be found.

March 28, 2005
7:09 am
Avatar
bnolen
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 40
Member Since:
June 1, 2004
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
sp_Print Print Post Post #17

The requirement is in both the 2000 and 2003 IRC at E3801.11 HVAC Outlet

March 24, 2005
11:22 am
Avatar
stormywyo
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 811
Member Since:
July 12, 2000
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
sp_Print Print Post Post #18

No

But there is a section (210.63, 2002 NEC )that requires one to be within 25 feet.