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Bring it back..please
January 22, 2007
1:16 pm
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webmaster
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Actually, packsaddle, you couldn''t be more wrong. I have never -- not ONCE -- deleted a thread that was about certification policies, conflicting code provisions, poor ICC leadership, etc. Not once.

I have closed some threads (but left all of the critical posts in place) when some threads degenerated into name-calling and off-topic rants. In those cases, all of the criticism of ICC remained right up there where it was posted.

What about the much-loathed HOBB posts that impugned building official professionalism? They''re right here, among other places:
http://www.iccsafe.org/cgi-bin.....6;t=000438

NFPA controversies? Here''s one:
http://www.iccsafe.org/cgi-bin.....313#000008

Political speculation on the CEO search for ICC?
http://www.iccsafe.org/cgi-bin.....162#000013

ICC has, in fact, bent over backward to allow a free exchange of ideas on building safety topics. We''re just not going to be the hosts for other topics, because it detracts from our mission. It''s a wide-open internet and a free country, so you all are free to discuss those topics all you want, just not on an ICC-hosted board dedicated to this expressed mission.

And with that, I''ll close this thread. Thanks for the original suggestion. I think the answer has been amply flogged to death here.

ICC Webmaster

January 22, 2007
1:16 pm
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peach!!
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beyond that... with the old open discussion, I had a place to post and update Brent Synder''s condition.... that may not mean alot to some of you... HE meant alot to many of us... I think we''d be taking a chance posting something like that now... no place to do it..

Hub said it... we spend thousands of dollars on ICC sponsored seminars (happily, actually), and order our code books from ICC instead of another construction book store.. (that can change, I suppose).. and we sit around at seminars saying the same things to each other we did with the "open discussion"...

I for one miss it... lots...

January 22, 2007
1:06 pm
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beach
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Pack! I fear you hit the proverbial nail on the head........"They" are probably developing a "black list" as we speak!!! When you have a monopoly, you get to make the rules.

January 22, 2007
12:22 pm
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hub
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Pack...I rest...well said. I guess my alter ego will be "freevideos'' or some such cripe. Webmaster...We are all well certified / experienced professionals here and like talkin crap with each other. Example: Lets say I / We spend thousands of dollars per year on books and ICC seminars and sit down with a bunch of "Tough Skinned Inspectors" at the round table...same thing no harm no foul..Only the strong shall survive in this business. That Old open Forum weeded out the weak...Heck, they would not make it past their first Inspection after an "Educated" Contractor was finished with them..Just My Honest Opinion. That "Old" Open Discussion was a "good training tool".

January 22, 2007
11:58 am
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packsaddle
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this issue goes much deeper.

a quick review of past threads will reveal the frustration of many members regarding icc, including flawed certification policies, conflicting code provisions, poor leadership, etc.

it appears someone wanted to silence these criticisms.

however, squelching critical scrutiny was not the exclusive decision of the webmaster -- this decision came from someone higher up the food chain.

and, of course, one sure way to win a debate is to censor the opposition and classify their view as "illegal" or "inappropriate".

ironically, many non-members come to this site and, through the exploitation of the "building related topics only" shibboleth, are allowed to freely persecute and condemn municipal code officials, often through dogmatic, emotionally-charged anecdotes.

regardless, the vocal minority has once again prevailed, forcing its will on the majority through manipulation and coercion.

like prayers before high school football games, the old forum will forever be just a nostalgic memory.

January 22, 2007
10:00 am
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There were lots of people who requested that changes be made to the old open forum. And lots of people who were very happy with the change. Most of that feedback came through either private messages or e-mail.

But I''ll remind everyone it wasn''t a decision based on the popularity of the change. It was a decision based on ICC''s core focus on building safety issues and the desire to keep the board focused on those professional issues. Whether it''s popular with 20%, or 50%, or 80% of the folks out there wasn''t part of the decision-making.

ICC Webmaster

January 22, 2007
9:33 am
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beach
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Webmaster, Have their been complaints from members regarding the old open forum? I haven''t really seen any posts from complainers.....

January 22, 2007
9:13 am
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Oh... I''m sorry. I was just responding to the post that "membership dues were funding this website." So I wanted help out with a little back-of-the-napkin math to figure out exactly how how much.

I figured that when people paid for books or training, they were exchanging money for, well, books or training. Perhaps they were paying for a book plus input on every penny spent by ICC on any program under its (or its subsidiaries'') purview. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

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January 22, 2007
9:01 am
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packsaddle
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what is being overlooked here is the fact that most of the monies from sales, training, certifications, technical assistance, etc. are coming from, yep, [i]members[/i].

therefore, that "8% of membership revenue" has now leaped to about 90%.

January 22, 2007
8:57 am
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maniac
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sp_Print Print Post Post #10

Some of us pay more than others.....

January 22, 2007
8:33 am
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sp_Print Print Post Post #11

I understand your point. I can make it even more precise.

According to the most recent annual report, memberships provide 8% of ICC''s revenue. There were 40,336 members. So each member provides 0.000193% (1.93e-4) of operating expenses.

The web site expenses are hard to pinpoint, but they''re no more than 0.1% of expenses, including staff, hardware, and services. That would mean that each member contributes something less than 10.6 cents directly to the web site.

The full annual report for the last year is available here:

http://www.iccsafe.org/members.....Report.pdf

Sincerely,
ICC Webmaster

January 22, 2007
8:04 am
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packsaddle
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sp_Print Print Post Post #12

thanks!

i suspected membership dues were funding this website.

January 22, 2007
7:56 am
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sp_Print Print Post Post #13

The web site is paid for out of the IT budget, which is derived from ICC revenues, which come from dozens of sources (sales, ES evaluations, memberships, training, certification, technical assistance, IAS, and on and on).

I''ll be closing this thread later today.

ICC Webmaster

January 22, 2007
7:30 am
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packsaddle
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sp_Print Print Post Post #14

webmaster,

i have a question: how is this website funded?

thanks, in advance.

January 22, 2007
7:19 am
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sp_Print Print Post Post #15

Thanks for your feedback. We''re not going to open it back up. I fully understand that there are trade-offs to limiting the discussion to building safety issues, but those trade-offs are decidedly a net positive for ICC.

Sincerely,
ICC Webmaster

January 22, 2007
6:37 am
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hub
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sp_Print Print Post Post #16

Amen...beach. As for one I have never had
or let my feelings or emotions "get hurt" on this Forum. If I see a post turning that way I simply go to another Topic. It was fun thats all.

Poll....I vote. YES "Open discussion about anything" tasteful that is.

January 22, 2007
6:10 am
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beach
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sp_Print Print Post Post #17

Open discussion = anything goes.

If anyone gets offended, they have the choice to not read the thread. We are, after all, adults? Just like TV and radio, all you have to do is change the station if you don''t like the content.

January 21, 2007
6:26 pm
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packsaddle
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sp_Print Print Post Post #18

this would be an excellent opportunity for a poll.

let the membership vote.

let members decide the parameters of an "open discussion".

January 21, 2007
8:21 am
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beach
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sp_Print Print Post Post #19

It was nice to be able to let off a little steam once in awhile.....especially when you have to be nice and touchy feely when contractors, etc, want to pick fights.....

January 21, 2007
8:02 am
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hub
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sp_Print Print Post Post #20

Hey Peach.....or boss....uh I didnt say anything wrong....did I? :p