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building area and overhangs
March 3, 2018
1:40 pm
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davidkenneydesigns@gmail.com
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Can a covered area not directly connected to building be excluded from sprinkler requirements?  Can anyone direct me to where the IFC or IBC describes exactly what needs to be sprinkled for covered occupier outdoor spaces. 

February 17, 2009
11:06 am
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rickastoria
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The overhang is aproximately 478''-4.5" to 478''-4.75" by 34''. Given the information from the first post. The added square footage.

OP''s first post:
[QUOTE]We are designing a 21,215 sf shop building. F1 or S1 occupancy. This building has large 34'' overhangs. I am trying to figure out if the overhangs are included in the building area. Since we have no columns on the outside holding up the overhangs, I believe that the overhangs don''t count?? If the overhangs count this adds 16265 sf of building. This then, is too big for the construction type we want to use. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Code reference would be great too. [/QUOTE]The OP''s second post:
[QUOTE]The canopies are cantilevered from the building, much like eaves, they just happen to be 34? deep. 502.1 clearly speak about the exterior wall. So builder bob, are you saying that they do not count? That?s how I read it, but I am asking because they are so big. If they were to be included they increase our building area by 2/3. Cong Dad, where do I find this IBC commentary?[/QUOTE]This is apparently canopies and by definition of canopies in the code versus awning - it is supported by the building on one end and supported by supporting posts/stand-alone wall on the other end. There is also NO known awning that can span 30+ feet and only be supported by the building on one end and have no support on the other end.

It would be an awning if it has no support on the end of the structure opposite of the end supported by the building. It is defined in the code. Unless the awning is say 34''x478''x34'' (but bottom of awning being 8-10'' above grade).

This is obviously weird if it is an awning and highly the possibility of being structurally questionable.

February 17, 2009
9:39 am
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vmack
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OK, here goes. I see various opinions as to what the original poster meant. I would like more definite information from him.

Are we talking 34" or 34''.

Is this dimension perpendiclar from the building or parallel to the building?

What is the area under this overhang to be used for? If 34'' it certainly is not intended to just keep the rain off the neck while entering or exiting the building.

Floor Area Gross is defined in 1002.1.
Building Area as defined in Section 502.1 is essentially the same.

"The floor area inside the perimeter of the exterior walls of a building under consideration....: (this accounts for the majority of structures being built)However, one needs to read the entire paragraph. "The floor area of a building, OR PORTION THEREOF, not provided with exterior walls shall be the useable area under the horizontal projection of the ROOF or floor above."

There is nothing said as to whether the projection is cantilevered or supported from the ground by posts at the outside edge.

If the area is projecting 34'' from the building wall as I suspect is the case if the overhangs increase the building size by 2/3, then the building area definitely includes the overhangs and definitly factors in to the fire area which will most likely require the building proper and the overhang areas to be sprinklered. NFPA13 requires sprinklers throughout the building area.

February 13, 2009
11:44 am
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kilitact
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Good questions rick astoria. be interesting to see the op''s response.

February 13, 2009
11:38 am
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rickastoria
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This can mean a USEABLE space. This is a Canopy.

No awning that I know of can project from the wall of the building anywhere close to 34''. This would be a canopy system.

Depending on the local amendments of the code, the space maybe considered usable/occupiable space and may include any usable space as part of the building area. This seems to me to mostly apply to licensing requirements but I don''t think this would matter for the OP. What is this space being used for?

Another question, is the canopy part of the ROOF of the building or does the wall of the shop building project higher then the highest point on the wall that the canopy is attached to the building. Additionally, if the canopy is attached to a 3-hour fire-rated wall, the canopy space would be a separate building area from the shop area.

What is the type of construction of the shop building?

Does the shop building have parapets? or does the wall of the shop building project higher then the canopy at any point along the canopies connection to the wall?

Those are the basic questions in mind.

Important factors that can break the roofline and make the canopy be deemed a seperate structure from the shop building itself.

February 13, 2009
11:23 am
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kilitact
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[QUOTE] yeh, right. [/QUOTE]If you have some information thats not posted, please share.

February 13, 2009
10:05 am
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genebko
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16265 sf under the 34 ft overhang next to a S-1 shop.
[QUOTE]
The op has not indicated a use.the overhangs could be an architect/owners feature/idea of a modern building. [/QUOTE]yeh, right.
😀

February 13, 2009
9:08 am
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kilitact
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The op has not indicated a use.the overhangs could be an architect/owners feature/idea of a modern building.

February 13, 2009
8:05 am
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genebko
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another vote - they count as building area since they will be sheltering a use.

February 13, 2009
7:33 am
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fw
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I misread the original post, I would consider that building area also.

February 13, 2009
7:11 am
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tycobb2522
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sp_Print Print Post Post #11

Thirty four feet.

February 13, 2009
7:05 am
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rlga
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sp_Print Print Post Post #12

Richard didn''t indicate if the overhang was occupiable or not (I assume it is--otherwise, why provide such a large structure to protect nothing).

The overhangs mentioned in the post above is the awkward way of saying eaves, which are usually short in length. I doubt the overhang that richard describes could be considered just an eave. Read the sentence prior to the one you quoted:

"When a portion of the building has no exterior walls, the area regulated by Chapter 5 is defined
by the [b]projection of the roof[/b] or floor above."

The above quote is referring to overhangs that go beyond the typical eave.

February 13, 2009
6:45 am
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fw
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sp_Print Print Post Post #13

Last sentance from the 2006 IBC commentary on Section 502.1 "The roof overhang on portions of a building where there are exterior enclosure walls does not add to the building area because the area is defined by exterior walls."
This roof overhang over 34" is not providing a useable space beneath it, why should it be considered a part of the building area?

February 13, 2009
3:59 am
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kilitact
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sp_Print Print Post Post #14

definition for building area includes areas without walls only if the area is within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above.depending on how this is constructed might not be included in calculating building area also might not have to install fire sprinklers

February 12, 2009
1:26 pm
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gary wheeler
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sp_Print Print Post Post #15

Richard, you might be able to cut a nominal 6" or so off the 34'' overhang area, depending if that is part of an architectural element, or if there is an eave purlin a few inches in. But generally, any porch or extended, cantilevered overhang like yours is going to house or include people, goods and equipment and should be added to the gross building area.

As this is a shop building, we can easily imagine material and equipment stored under this overhang. If this is combustible or involves flammable liquids, there could be a problem.

February 10, 2009
5:45 am
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rlga
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sp_Print Print Post Post #16

The building code doesn''t define "covering" when used in the definition of an awning. It could be metal or even glass.

I first thought the 34-foot was the length and not the depth. If it is the depth, then I seriously doubt the structure of the overhang is a "lightweight, rigid skeleton" as used in the definition of an awning. Therefore, it is a roof structure and must be included in the building area.

February 10, 2009
4:18 am
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builderbob
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sp_Print Print Post Post #17

Not an awning either...an awning is the thin metallic tubing attached tot eh building that has the cloth membrane draped over it..

February 9, 2009
8:02 pm
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frank castelvecchi
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sp_Print Print Post Post #18

IT is under a roof and I presume occupied.
Is part of the building area and sprinklers required.

February 9, 2009
2:49 pm
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rlga
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sp_Print Print Post Post #19

The description of the overhang provided by richard doesn''t conform to the definition of "canopy" provided in Section 202. It more closely conforms to the definition of "awning" since it is completely supported by the building structure. Therefore, I''ll refer to it as an awning in this post.

As to whether or not it''s part of the "building area," an awning is not excluded specifically by the definition of "building area," nor is it mentioned as being excluded in Section 3105 for awnings and canopies.

However, the definition for "building area" includes areas without walls only if the area is "within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above." If the awning is truly attached to the building, and the building has its own roof system, then it should not be included in the building area, since the awning is not within the horizontal projection of the roof above. But, if the enclosed building''s roof is a portion of the awning, then the awning is a part of the horizontal projection of the roof and must be included in the building area.

February 9, 2009
1:00 pm
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giveit2fred
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sp_Print Print Post Post #20

First I thought you said overhang then canopies. An overhang such as one or more stories overhanging the first would count in building area , but canopies do not.
I would like to see a plan of that I might reconsider. Interesting.