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Plumbing Rough-In and Plumbing Top-Out
January 22, 2006
3:10 am
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connie_s
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January 21, 2006
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constructionarbitrator has it mostly right; I need to know some of this stuff because it is tied to draws that have been paid, and being requested, and the builder has been trying to jerk me around. All my questions were treated like I was a stupid idiot for asking. It is amazing what pictures and documentation can do though. How can I find out that those inspections have been done (even if it is too late now...- will point to compliance or lack of) and are those inspections required in each state? Are there other inspections in TX that are required that I can require proof of? I have been looking for answers to a bunch of my building questions for a very long time. I just happened to stumble across this website. The more information I can get my hands on, the better. (In my defense, I did do my homework before I hired the builder...came highly recommended, looked at his work in other homes, got my references including different realtors and his bank). Up until 3 days ago the house was about 50% done (should have been done by now), with very poor workmanship; no toilets, sinks, hot water tank, etc. Then I discovered empty plumbing boxes tossed into my garage but the supplies were no where to be found...thus the questions for what is included in each...Peach thanks for the financial info...anyone else have approximates for the rough-in, top out, and the final? Especially down in the TX area? Am getting gouged on the pricing....anything else you guys can recommend or tell me about??? I hired a building inspector and a lawyer...the more info I can gather the better.

January 21, 2006
6:34 pm
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paulse
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some use the term "rough" for all the buried materials, including HVAC, electrical, plumbing, framing, low voltage. it is the inspection prior to insulation, then wall covering. generally, a top out is for high rises or multi-story construction. "Top-out" is not unique to plumbing; at least iron workers use it as well.

There is no rule for jargon. Contracts should specify what is and isn''t done. Relying on a term that has multiple meanings for contract definition is not a great idea.

To some extent, the definitions are dependent upon jurisdictional inspection procedure, not plumber-speak. i would go back over what the contract says and see if it is clearer. If you feel that there is a problem, explain what you think is problematic, so that the vast experience available here can be of service to you.

paul

January 21, 2006
4:50 pm
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peach!!
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our plumbers get paid about this:
Underground Plumbing - $600

Rough in (after they pass inspection) - 50% of contract amount (minus the $600)

After they pass the final - 40%

we retain 10% (basically their profit) until the first homeowner walkthru.. to ensure they come back for basic warranty stuff

January 21, 2006
3:26 pm
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constructionarbitrator
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You can''t insulate the joists and lay the subfloor (or pour the slab) until you get a "rough plumbing inspection" (among some other inspections), you can''t insulate the walls and sheetrock them until you get a "top out inspection" (among other inspections), you can''t get a final inspection to move in (some have a CO requirements) until you get a plumbing final inspection (among other things). [b]Inspectors Rule![/b]

I suspect that what our guest is looking for are some definitions, because her contract has payments tied to inspections and she wants her dishwasher, whirlpool bath, and disposal hooked up before she pays any money to the builder, but those things don''t come until next to last in a bank 5-pay plan. :rolleyes:

January 21, 2006
2:31 pm
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peach!!
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I sit corrected, your highness

January 21, 2006
2:22 pm
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rosso
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Harum, Plumbing "rough-in" also, known as the underground; to some foreigners and Yankees; is installation of the DWV and depending on the age of the plumber sometimes the water lines; in the ground only; before the slab is poured.

The "top-out" or "stack-out" is ALL piping in walls and floors above ground and out through walls and roof; prior to covering with wall board.

Signed,

The Whiskey City Plumber

January 21, 2006
2:08 pm
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peach!!
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Up here, the VTR are all done for the rough-in..
and Underground plumbing, is well.. just that

January 21, 2006
1:01 pm
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jbh
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Peach, gotta go with CA on the definitions here.
Rough in is underfloor, top out is thru the roof.
Fixtures are set for the final.

January 21, 2006
10:02 am
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constructionarbitrator
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CCS:

No, not at all. "Rough in" is all of the underfloor stuff (including 2nd floors), "top out" is when the vents go through the roof (and filled with water for a test clear to the top of the roof). The sinks, whirlpools, and disposals are not connected until the "finish", and the entire system is not hooked to the sewer until the entire house is finaled. That way you can''t move in and start flushing toilets and washing dishes until the house is finaled and on the tax rolls.

January 21, 2006
8:35 am
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connie_s
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sp_Print Print Post Post #10

This next question will really let you know I haven''t a clue to these things; does the rough-out include hooking up my sinks to the actually plumbing coming out of the wall or just that they are in place to be hooked up? How about my whirlpool tub? Does it include the hooking up of that to the plumbing? Also; does the rough-out include the hooking up of the garbage disposal?

January 21, 2006
8:13 am
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peach!!
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sp_Print Print Post Post #11

rough in is generally the stuff (water lines, vents, etc) that is going to be concealed behind drywall.. the top out is setting the fixtures..

plumbing in the concrete is an issue.. no real good way to get at it (short of hammering up the slab).. that''s why most building departments require pressure tests of the lines before the concrete is placed. We check for leaks at that point.. (same thing is true for concealed plumbing.. if there''s a leak, you''d likely have to removed drywall to fix it. Some plumbers will sleeve the lines embedded in concrete, but I believe the code only requires it where it passes thru the footing. There are thousands of houses built this way, and we don''t see lots of failures (even in my old house)..

cost? The real money SHOULD be in the rough-in.. good quality copper and PVC, but the fixtures can be costly, too.. (you get what you pay for.. personally, I''d ensure the best quality concealed work.. you can always upgrade the fixtures.. IMHO

Good luck